The Law of Spiritual Retribution touches upon the situation that we see in the world today.
Robert: Welcome to Inner Sight. Inner Sight is simply seeing that which is always present but not yet fully recognized. You have within you the ability to see yourself and the world around you in a new way with new eyes. So, stay with us and together we’ll look at the world and ourselves with inner sight. Alice Bailey wrote twenty-four volumes of literature and all of the dialogue that you’ll hear on this show emanates from the works of Alice Bailey, who is the founder of the Lucis Trust, and Inner Sight is sponsored by the Lucis Trust Organization. This is a thought from Alice Bailey: “The Law of Spiritual Retribution requires that justice be meted out, but hatred will close the eyes of justice.” There’s a lot of depth to that thought. I would like to think that I don’t have to be proactive if someone violates me, that spirituality will seek retribution for me or perhaps karma. But maybe first you should explain what is meant by the Law of Spiritual Retribution, Dale and Sarah, and how it’s applied in a just way.
Sarah: The Law of Spiritual Retribution is also known as the Law of Karma, which people might be familiar with. Karma is known as the Law of Cause and Effect. It’s the recognition that what goes around comes around; that you must do unto others as you would have them do unto you; that you have to give out that which you wish to receive in return. All of these are ways of saying that whatever you put into the world comes back to you. This statement from Alice Bailey that says that “the Law of Spiritual Retribution requires that justice be rendered, but that hatred will close the eyes of justice” touches upon the situation that we see in the world today; in the Middle East in particular, with the terrible conflict and the eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, kind of retaliatory action that is going on. It’s hard to envision when it will stop. If you act out of hatred, you’re always trying to settle a score, always trying to pay somebody back, always trying to get even—which is an interesting concept itself, to “get even,” and maybe we can talk about that a bit later— but this kind of hatred can skew the rendering of real justice.
Dale: Yes, there’s a statement in the Book of Job that I came across the other day that seems to be pertinent to this question also, and it says, “They that plow iniquity and sow wickedness reap the same,” which is also the same as “you reap what you sow.” That’s sort of what we see going on in the Middle East and perhaps they still have a way to go to work that out. The thing you mentioned about balance—we have to think about this Spiritual Law of Retribution in terms of energy. There is a law of physics—if you remember back in your high school physics class—that said, for every action there’s an equal and opposite reaction. So, the laws of physics also recognized this same action and reaction. Everything that’s happening has to do with energy and forces playing against each other, and they all work according to some spiritual law that underlies all the movement of energies.
Sarah: I think one of the points behind this idea, that it’s energy that’s really being expressed and directed, is that as long as you’ve got an equal and opposing reaction in terms of retaliation, you’ve got one energy setting off another and there’s no equilibrium that can be established. Whereas maybe the attainment of equilibrium depends on finding a third point that literally provides a release out of the impasse.
Dale: Yes, that’s the only way one gets off this back-and-forth action and reaction. There needs to be that third force, that in-between. It’s the middle path of the Buddha, the Middle Way, the third force that enables the two opposing forces to lift themselves up to come to some agreement at the middle.
Sarah: To find some kind of convergence, some kind of common ground in looking towards some future goal perhaps. I was reading an interesting book by the writer Robert Kaplan, who writes for The Atlantic Monthly; he wrote a book, Eastward to Tartary which was about his journey through the Near East. He said that he talked to one enlightened thinker there who said that he thought the concept of enlightened self-interest would be what would bring an end to the impasse, to the constant retaliation; evoking the people’s sense of enlightened self-interest, which would be self preservation, which you could only have if you stop retaliating and figure out a way to get out of the endless conflict. It struck me that probably that appeal would register if there were someone or some wise group who could show this third point that would lead or serve enlightened self-interest to everyone involved.
Dale: That’s why resolution to that conflict has to come from outside, because they’re not perhaps ready to recognize this third force.
Sarah: That’s what’s envisioned for the World Court which we’re reading about more and more—the World Court in The Hague, which is currently dealing with the trial of Milosevic of the former Yugoslavia, Serbia. Some matters of really crucial world importance have to be turned over to a more dispassionate world body like the World Court, which takes the problem out of the local area, the nation that’s involved in the conflict, and turns it over to a trusted but more dispassionate and hopefully discriminating source of judgment and justice. I don’t know if the world’s ready for this idea of a World Court; the United States, for one, has been reluctant to sign on to it. But to me, it seems like a step forward to bring about a more international consensus on how to deal with real wrongdoing. There was a conflict between Ecuador and Peru a few years ago over a boundary, and both sides agreed to turn it over to the World Court, and the World Court rendered a verdict that they could all accept.
Robert: That certainly sounds enlightened.
Sarah: Yes, rare and enlightened. And there’s another instance like that in Central America, between Nicaragua and Honduras, where they’re fighting over boundaries, and I think it’s going before the World Court. Why shouldn’t some of these matters be entrusted to a more removed and elevated place where a verdict can be rendered?
Robert: Well, certainly the belief in karma is probably what has to happen first. If mankind could believe in karma and just say, “I’ve been violated and I’m going to allow the spirit of the universe to enact and implement karma.” I think the belief in it is so important, but unfortunately a lot of people aren’t ready to believe. What is the difference between justice and retribution?
Sarah: Well, justice is a conviction that there is a divine law at work. Retribution says, as you just mentioned, I’ve been wronged and I want somehow to get even. I don’t know; when you find yourself saying or focusing on how you’ve been wronged, maybe you’re not looking at your own part in the problem. Maybe you’re not aware of other times when you might have been the wrongdoer. It can be a little bit blind to the reality of the situation to focus only on what’s been done to you. I think all human beings are part of probably an endless series of wrongs done and received. This is where the concept of forgiveness comes in. We all need forgiving. We all need to forgive. We all need to be forgiven. This is just my opinion. If anyone is saying to himself, I’ve never wronged anyone in my whole life, I’d like to meet that person because I’ve never met such a saint. When you really get ensconced in your own indignation at how rotten the world treats you, then you aren’t seeing the full picture.
Dale: No, not seeing the full picture, and that’s also true when it comes to the more spiritual observation or the spiritual side of retribution. We tend to think of it in physical terms. You do a wrong to me and I in turn do a wrong to you. But this doesn’t take into account the retribution and justice that takes place at the soul level, because the soul has its own way of dealing with these energies and forces that have been rendered out of balance. It has its own cycle of doing this. It may correct a mistake in the next lifetime.
Sarah: Not instantaneously as we would prefer. (laughs)
Dale: No, “retribution is not always swift,” as we sometimes say. We have to take this into account more and more, that justice will be meted out, but it may be the justice of God in God’s own way, or the soul’s own way, because the soul has its own pattern of dealing with this sort of thing.
Sarah: And I think it is a matter of belief, as you say Robert. You either believe that the soul puts right all wrongs, or you don’t. I happen to believe that, but it’s true, as you say, that there’s a time cycle that may not suit our own self-interest so much. I came across an interesting realization about this concept of retribution. What you’re talking about—the soul and justice—is found in that very well-known statement, “Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small.” And I did get that right everyone! I know you want to say, “exceedingly fine,” but the translation by Longfellow of a German writer named Friedrich von Logau was, “Though the mills of God grinds slowly, yet they grind exceeding small.” And what’s interesting is that statement comes from a poem called “Retribution.” It’s the very poetic, beautiful way of expressing that the soul has its own time but it doesn’t overlook anything. I find that very comforting and I also find it a warning to be on your toes and to not think that you’ve escaped anything. The score is settled, and I think that’s very well known in all religions because there are many ways of saying this: “Meeting Saint Peter,” “Judgment Day,” “Being weighed in the balances.” These are all concepts from various different cultures that say we are held accountable, so this shouldn’t be news to anyone.
Robert: Sarah mentioned before, the idea of forgiveness. It just ran through my mind that a lot of times I think I forgive, but to truly forgive is to let go of the experience; forget it. Sometimes I’ll say that I forgive that person, but I don’t really feel that I have unless I really let go of the experience.
Sarah: Well, just keep in mind that there are others probably feeling the same way about you. (laughs)
Robert: That’s true, yes. (laughs) But I think that’s probably the criteria for true forgiveness, to let go of that experience and whatever it is that we’re harboring. Why do you think there is such a rise in hatred in the world today, and does it mean that we might be headed—God forbid—towards another World War?
Sarah: I don’t know, but it is true or it seems to be apparent that hatred is on the rise. One factor that might be is—well it’s purely speculative—this is an age that is passing out. We hear references to the “new age” and the “old age.” The present time is an era between an old and a new age. The energy that was conditioned and qualified in the past age, the two thousand years of Pisces, was an age of idealism and of abstract devotion to ideals, to spiritual values, but the downside of that aspiration is that it fosters fanaticism. The writings of Alice Bailey touch on the increasing fanaticism as this idealistic tendency crystallizes and becomes cruder and cruder, as the energy withdraws itself, because that’s what happens as an energy cycle phases out—the energy becomes cruder and coarser. We do see incredible fanaticism in the world. The person with the courage of his convictions can be quite scary.
Dale: Yes, and I was just thinking that during this crystallized period, here again, we’re working with energy. The hatred that’s rising up in the world especially in the past few decades is like the last-ditch effort of these fanatical elements in our world, in our human society, to have their say made known to the world. But on the other hand—it gets back to what I said earlier about the energies and forces having an equal and opposite reaction to each other—there is also counteracting this hatred in the world, a growing and stronger voice of goodwill and love. That’s the encouraging sign and why I think we won’t disintegrate into another World War, because the strength of love and goodwill in the world today is so much stronger and it can counteract the hatred that is out there. A good example of that just happened a few months ago at the attack on the World Trade Centre. There was a tremendously really evil act done, which was immediately on the same day counteracted by a great outpouring of love and goodwill. I think that’s a prime demonstration of these energies and forces at work.
Sarah: Yes, the forces of evil, if they have an effect on human beings, I think they foster the tendency to want to separate and stand apart. You can see that at work in the world today: the tendency of certain people, certain individuals, to want to separate themselves, to maintain their separation, their apartness. That can seem quite understandable in the case of minority groups in larger societies, but it’s also something that I think we should be on the alert for, because when we are separating ourselves from the larger humanity, we become a part of an opposition—just as you’ve talked about—that sets up a cycle of action and reaction; we’re opposing something else. If we identify with a small group of people, we are seeing ourselves as separate from and opposed to the larger whole, and that creates a situation where there can be retaliation and retribution. At the same time, we have this phenomenal expression of globalization underway in the world, and although globalization has its flaws and its problems, people of goodwill, I think, understand the inevitability of it and the basic rightness of it in drawing peoples together.
Dale: Yes, certainly, and the communications explosion we have on the Internet is creating this global sense that we are all gaining, and it’s really the direction I think we have to be going, even though a lot of people may be opposed to it; but it has its good part. There was something else I just wanted to mention also about the hatred and goodwill. These tend to come to the fore because of the focus of consciousness. Where one’s consciousness is focused, that’s where one’s energies will be placed, and if one is operating more from an emotional level, from his solar plexus, let’s say, then he may react more violently than one who has more of a heart approach. I think that makes a difference too with action and reaction.
Robert: Why is justice depicted by the scales evenly balanced?
Sarah: You know, I’ve wondered about that for the longest time. Wouldn’t you think justice would come down on the side of one or the other? I’m still of the old age where I favour one side and not the other. But justice does in fact seek an equilibrium, and I was thinking and thinking about this, and I came up with the idea that maybe the third point which we mentioned earlier is what justkce seeks. This, I think, was touched upon by the Buddha when he talked about the “Noble Middle Way,” which is the way between the pairs of opposites. The Buddha did not advise that we take one side or the other, but track or chart the razor-edged path through the pairs of opposites and beyond them. This is where we find justice, knowing all the while that the law of karma does inevitably fulfil itself, eventually. I think you can aspire to justice and have the realization that Karma will correct all wrongs. They don’t preclude each other.
Dale: No, and in that symbol of the scales, it wouldn’t be a scale if it weren’t balanced on that third point, that fulcrum. That is what creates the third point, otherwise it would be just sitting there and there would be a duality of opposing forces; there wouldn’t be a third point. In a court case you have the defence and prosecution, and it’s the judge and the jury that provide the point at the centre.
Sarah: And I suppose these pairs of opposites become increasingly subtle as the human being treads the spiritual path. It starts out with very obvious oppositions, but they become more and more subtle on the path. I think that pertains to an individual and to a society. I think nations and whole peoples are finding that they have to make more and more subtle judgments. Here we are still the most litigious society on Earth. We haven’t really figured out that going to court doesn’t always settle in a just way. So, we have a lot to learn, I think.
Robert: Look upon Buddha and Christ and some of our other great spiritual leaders as being people who genuinely believed in karma; you never see them being proactive with revenge. There’s always a feeling that the universe and karma and spiritual law will take care of it, and I guess that’s really the way to peace. That’s about all the time we have for our discussion today. You’ve been listening to Inner Sight. Now we would like to close with a world prayer called the Great Invocation. It’s a call for light and love and goodwill to flow into the world and into our hearts. Let’s listen for a moment to these powerful words.
Sarah: Closes the program by reciting the adapted version of the Great Invocation.
(This is an edited transcript of a recorded radio program called “Inner Sight.” This conversation was recorded between the host, Robert Anderson, and the then President and Vice-President of Lucis Trust, Sarah and Dale McKechnie.)
(Transcribed and edited by Carla McLeod)
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